Nele Sabbe, 28 August 2024 Hi, what are the most recently optimised doses for darting kudu? Neil Parsons, [29 Aug 2024 at 18:21:27]: I use as low as 1 mg Thianil, 8 mg medetomidine and 20 mg azaperone for females, and 1 Thianil, 10 medetomidine and 30 azaperone for mature bulls. 2500 iu or more Hyalase helps a lot with down times. 1” needles and good IM shots. This is ground darting. I find it a great dose for handling animals in difficult terrain as I can stand them up and walk them with the prodder. I can’t comment on helicopter-darting doses. Nele Sabbe, 29 August 2024. Thanks. I darted a cow from the ground with 1.7mg Thianil and 8 mg medetomidine +30 mg azaperone and she didn't want to go down. 😢 She eventually went down with extra 100mg ketamine and extra half a dose of the first dart. 1"darts and perfect placement. So, she must have been an exception on the rule 🙈. Henry Labuschagne Did you rule out dart failure? Nele Sabbe, Yes, the dart went off nicely. She started reacting quite quickly, but she kept on trotting, and the typical reaction of jumping sideways and running off (as if you would use etorphine + azaperone instead of Thianil + azaperone like in the days when there was no Thianil available) when she came closer to a person. Neil Parsons, 30 August 2024 Did you have Hyalase in the dart? I’ve had the odd variable response without it. I also leave them well alone for a bit longer than usual. Early stimulation seems to mess up the induction big time. Nele Sabbe, 30 August 2024 Yes, I left her alone for almost 20 minutes - no chasing whatsoever. She must have been the exception of the rule. Because she took so long, I didn't get a chance to dart another one, so there was no comparison possible with other kudu on that farm. Andy Fraser, 30 August 2024 Nele, if she was closed in a boma the stress can make extremely difficult for the medetomidine to do its job. Many kudus darted with a low opioid + medetomidine need to be hand captured to get an acceptable down time, once caught (if ready) they stay lying down. Your dose was OK, maybe 1 mg Thianil + 10 mg medetomidine + 20 mg azaperone may have been better in a stressful situation. The 1.7 mg Thianil may have caused enough excitement to slow action of medetomidine. Dart placement may have been good, but you still have found a connective tissue pocket or dart may have failed. Nele Sabbe, 30 August 2024 Hi Andy, dart went off totally, there was bleeding at the dart site and nicely in the muscles, she was in a camp. Yes, I know the hand capturing but no one had arms of 5 m long😜. I just wanted to make sure that it was a once off case, as I 1. Don't often dart kudu cows (although darting bulls very regularly) 2. Don't normally dart from the ground 3. Never had problems with bulls Then at least, I know for the future, I shouldn't give higher doses as what I used... Thanks all for the info! Andy Fraser, 30 August 2024 Nele, I think every vet on this group that has darted kudu, no matter what the drug combination has been, has had the same experience as you. The tough days are what make our job challenging and Interesting. Our job is easy when we have a helicopter. The client must accept these events when they choose to dart from the ground. 1.7 mg Thianil + 8 mg medetomidine + 20 mg azaperone is a good dose for a cow
