Alex Lewis, [15 Oct 2022 at 11:27:24]: With regards to elephant culling, is Scoline acceptable in modern woke world or bullets better? Helicopter cull of an entire herd needs to be done. I would appreciate others opinions. Peter Rogers, [15 Oct 2022 at 14:14:34]: I think Scoline is EXTREMELY CRUEL AND UNETHICAL when used in an animal which is still conscious especially in big animals like elephants which take a long time to die Richard Burroughs: Agree with Peter. Scoline not a good plan Alex Lewis, [15 Oct 2022 at 17:33:01]: I hear that but to get a proper brain shot takes time and it is not great shooting an animal and not a brain shot. Then the other cover it and you don't get a kill shot for much longer than scoline takes to kill. Is a combination not the most ethical? With Scoline, I also say that the first minute the animal does not look too stressed it is only the 30sec mark until it collapses and then I am not sure it is conscious during the last bit of paddling? Richard Burroughs: Its conscious all right Peter Rogers, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:05:12]: It’s definitely conscious. While working as a student in KNP, there was still a corneal reflex after 20 minutes plus. Its like holding your breath until you die Alex Lewis, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:09:28]: Where you using super saturated mix with DMSO? We need to find ethical ways to kill elephant herds without wasting the meat. What about a combination with something like sufentanyl that is super fast and short half-life that makes them unconscious until Scoline kills them? David Pretorius, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:16:59]: The cost of sufentanyl will not make it a viable option Gerhardus Scheepers, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:18:53]: Alex many moons ago in Zimbabwe the person or persons doing the culling just used sharp ammunition.They put the matriarch down first and took a position on her body and killed the rest of the herd within minutes, all next to her carcass. If you can hold of one of those guys, they can maybe explain all the technical details, but it worked well for them. Alex Lewis, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:23:35]: Thanks. The problem is since those guys days, it has been tried and has not not worked out well, so culling has been stopped. We need to find an almost idiots guide to culling a herd. What if this or that goes wrong etc we need to try to find a professional plan. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that thousands of elephants will be culled soon enough - so it is a pressing issue with no answers. Roy Bengis, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:25:50]: Alex, I must agree with Peter and Richard. In the standard operating procedures for euthanising/ culling of animals, following intensive research by the late Dr Johan Hattingh, scoline was approved for culling of buffalo, but not for elephants or hippos. In the late 80's and early 90's elephants were culled by brain shooting. Cows, yearlings and calves (total family units) were efficiently shot with .308 (7.62 mm) rifles using full metal jacket or monolithic bullets. Bulls were culled using 375 and larger calibre rifles. With skilled marksmen and appropriate ammunition, this method was very efficient with minimal wounding problems, and totally humane. Scoline darting is also a very efficient method for culling problem predators in built up /rest camp situations. They are also exquisitely sensitive and don't run far and are brain dead in less than 2 minutes. Alex Lewis, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:28:08]: Thanks Roy. Do we as vets then say that shooting is the most ethical way we have at this time? Roy Bengis, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:31:04]: For elephants and hippos, especially if the meat is to utilised, it is absolutely the most efficient and humane technique, when practised by skilled and experienced marksman. Alex Lewis, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:32:05]: Thanks Roy. Gerhardus Scheepers, [15 Oct 2022 at 19:38:41]: Agree with Roy
