Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 20:43:02]: Me again, new challenge and need ideas please. 5 days ago I was on a farm and darted out 12-24 month old sable bulls from herd. I darted from a car and no animal trotted more than 500 m before going down. I used Thianil/Medetom/WBP as usual at 3/3/20 mg ratio. All darted animals received Kyroligo, BCobolic, ivermectin and Anthravax (high incidence of anthrax in 50 km radius). All drugs/vaccines new batches well within date and all been used in darting of over 180 animals this month. The bulls were moved from a camp with zero grazing but supplemental feeding (lucerne/hay and pellets) to a neighboring camp with moderate grazing (old grass) but no supplemental feeding. Within 24 hours of moving, the first animal was found dead close to fence adjacent to "parent camp". Since then there have been 4 more mortalities at daily intervals. All animals dead in close proximity to fence. Owner was away for weekend but insists that there was ample water put out along fence. Workers not the sharpest so history missing, no animals observed sick, all found dead. I drove out to farm to do fresh PM but ended up finding animal having been slaughtered. Did carcass inspection as far as possible. Moderate to advanced autolysis, mucosae of eyes in head very cyanotic, blood smear from clotted blood full of mixed PM invaders with some large chain forming rods (no capsule and not typical anthrax). Rumen wall has suggilations on, spleen small and contracted, kidneys and liver very autolysed, heart normal, lungs autolysed with what I assume PM hypostasis - cytology just a mess of cell debris and mixed bacteria. No lick (other than rock salt) in camp and no green growth at all in camp. I had no mortalities on other jobs with same drugs and combinations in the same general area of Namibia. The only difference between this batch of animals and other animals darted this month was that these animals moved camp and changed from no grazing but supplementary feeding, to no supplementary feeding and dry grazing. Any pearls of wisdom? Is deworming & change of diet causing Clostridium problems (dry old grass!). Is this a post immobilisation complication?? If so, why only these animals and why the time delay? Sorry for the essay! Kind regards Ulf Henry Labuachagne, [29 Jan 2024 at 20:50:12]: Did you use a pour on dip ? What age group died ? The 12 mth or 24 mth old ones ? What reversal drugs did you use? . 3 mg Thianil is a high dose with the 3mg medetomidine ? Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 20:54:46]: Hi Henry, yes used Redline, and yes 12-24 month group. I have been using that combination/dosage routinely to get relative fast down times in bush areas without using a chopper. I have never had a problem, and also no signs of overdose (respiratory depression etc). In fact a few were still a bit feisty for a while once down. Talking of Nam bokke! Henry Labuschagne, [29 Jan 2024 at 20:56:11]: What reversal was used ? Luis Amaral, [29 Jan 2024 at 20:57:38]: I do quite a lot of animals this age and use 1 mg Thianil + 2 mg medetomidine and 20 mg azaperone. I have seen no problems with this combination. I reverse with naltrexone and mix yohimbine/atipamezole. I never use Amitraz on them. The animals that are 12 months old, I use 0.5 mg Thianil + 1.5 medetomidine and 15 mg azaperone Henry Labuschagne, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:02:36]: I agree Luis. I use similar doses to yours without issue or prolonged downtimes. Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:03:54]: I reverse with naltrexone with yohimbine and atipamezole mixture. I also don't use Amitraz. I have issue with a slow down time in 3000 ha densely bushed camp and no chopper. Andreas Gaugler, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:06:36]: Ulf, what area in Namibia? Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:06:54]: South of Dordabis Luis Amaral, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:07:17]: The beauty about the low dosage is that I find them sometime even half an hour later and they are sternal and very stable. I use observers in high points with binoculars and radios Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:08:13]: I will have to erect a couple of towers 😅 Luis Amaral, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:09:25]: 😁😁 here in the Eastern Cape, there are plenty of Acacias and hills Henry Labuschagne, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:12:08]: Did you move them to a neighbouring camp? You found dead near the fence. It sounds as if they walked up and down the new fence trying to get back to the old camp where they knew where the water was and in the heat got exhausted. I once moved young sable bulls to a new farm. I gave instructions to put water out next to the fence but it was more important for the workers to leave for the weekend. In the next door camp was an earthern dam and the wind blew the smell of water in the direction of the animals. They could not smell the water in the middle of the new camp, but tried to get to the water that they could see and smell in the camp next door. They ended up walking up and down the fence and 6 of the 8 died of dehydration and exhaustion. I was not impressed. Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:18:14]: Now you are talking Henry! Yes, they all died within 30 m of fence, but they did put water out (troughs kept full with owner away from Thursday till Sunday??). Why first mortality within 24 hours, then almost daily? I don't buy drug dosage/mixture issues, have been around the block 1-2 times. No sign of renarcotisation etc. Water troughs apparently as per my instruction all along fence. Have seen a new released hartebeest herd literally walk over water troughs along fence line not drinking because (I think) they smelled water in a dam few km away HO Reuter, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:24:03]: In my opinion, your dosages are very high, especially opioid dose combined with medetomidine and perphenazine. I used to aim for short downtimes, but with HH regime and darting from vehicle, I prefer much slower down times now. But since the sable did well after reversal and only died a day to few days later, I think a change in diet and wandering along the fence most likely not having drunk (dehydration)(or eaten) is the major factor here. The amount of water put out, placement of water and actual record of drinking I find is often mis-communicated, especially if owner not there. Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:27:39]: I tend to agree. Unfortunately workers not the brightest and also not convinced about water availability without supervision but how to prove it? The rumen content was very dry, the spleen was small and contracted, which suggest dehydration, but owner does not buy it Elmien Kotze, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:35:03]: What were their body condition? If they were fat and only hang around the feeding troughs might not be fit and just the short exertion run might have damaged their heart muscles - they will probably have a deficiency from not having natural graze or green grass or Vitamin A Even if you do inject Kyroligo, it can't reverse damage already done to the heart muscle. On top of that with stress trying to get back to the herd might have been the last straw If they were of low body condition score then they simply couldn't handle the stress of the move High on my DD list is still that they didn't drink water with a high day time temperature, over-extertion... HO Reuter, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:40:41]: Owners and their staff seldom want to accept any responsibility for mortalities. Rather blame, the vet, the drugs, the weather, disease? …. In the end, the animals metabolic state, post darting, hot weather, all may have contributed to dying as result of dehydration, (e.g. with no darting, no change of feed and camp, sable will survive a few days of no water intake, but stress of translocation, and metabolic changes on top of dehydration may push them over the edge?) Elmien Kotze, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:41:03]: Other dd if south of Namibia - Pasteurella/Mannheimia Henry Labuschagne, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:45:32]: When translocating during hot days, I tube feed them with StressPack and water just before reversal. It lengthens the procedure a bit but less problems after offloading in new camp. Erik Verrynne, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:46:13]: Hi Ulf. I don’t think it is your dosage. What is the possibility of an underlying clostridial myositis either due to the handling, or even bruising along the fence etc? I have seen strange forms of black quarter in them ? Ulf Tubessing, [29 Jan 2024 at 21:55:23]: They were all on the thin side, but not emaciated. They were darted around food, but not very habituated animals, so no easy darting. None ran very far (500 m max) so capture myopathy very unlikely I believe BUT stress of capture and move, acute diet change, likely water deprivation certainly are very high on my list. I am wondering about dehydration and possible acute upset in rumen flora (diet change & deworming) contributing to some Clostridial infection. No sick animals seen - only dead ones. Then the question is the quality of observation in that time I know my dosages are high. Most were 2 year olds, youngsters 2/2/15 but I just can't see that this suddenly causes problems where the day before and after same dosages on sable on different farms in area, all animals are fine Erik Verrynne, [29 Jan 2024 at 22:01:34]: I assume you withheld giving antibiotic because of the Anthravax? I wonder if that played a role? Andreas Gaugler, [29 Jan 2024 at 23:00:29]: Ulf if they are not really habituated ,then even the drinking troughs become important as they will rather pass them if they look different and smell the water in the old camp - also if there weren't any sable in the new camp to show them around I would bet on dehydration
