Bart Gazendam, [21 Sep 2023 at 15:52:37]: Anyone used Fipronil (Topline) in (white) tigers? Henry Labuschagne, [21 Sep 2023 at 16:29:15]: Rather use Fipronil plus Imidacloprid Topspot from Vetscripts. Bart Gazendam, [21 Sep 2023 at 19:07:12]: Just out of curiosity, would drop out dart with Dectomax be as effective? Shorter duration of action? Annie Mears, [21 Sep 2023 at 19:16:01]: Agreed I use fipronil plus imidocloprid from Vetscripts Bart Gazendam [21 Sept 2023} Would be interested to know but generally the other big cats don’t tolerate Dectomax well. Henry Labuschagne, [21 Sep 2023 at 19:19:36]: I have seen too many nasty reactions with ML in large felids So in my books it is a big NO.. Curiosity killed the cat 😎 Bart Gazendam, [22 Sep 2023 at 07:14:47]: What kind of nasty reactions? Richard Burroughs [22 Sept 2023] Bart, have a look at Henry’s presentation on ML in large felids on wildlifevet.org Bart Gazendam, [22 Sep 2023 at 16:39:54]: Thank you! I did! It’s a very good presentation. I was aware of the neurological symptoms it can cause in case of an overdose, but I was wondering whether he had seen other reactions apart from that. We’ve used it quite a bit in captive animals (lions, tigers etc)- without problems. So just wanted to discuss it a little bit! However - now that there are many alternatives that are also longer acting and less invasive - they will have my preference, but I didn’t have time to order. For those animals that you can’t dip/treat orally it’s still interesting. I’ve also ask David whether his dip darts with fipronil have been used on cats and he told me people have, so that would also be a good option for people perhaps! Peter Caldwell, [23 Sep 2023 at 10:36:08]: I have used doramectin for many years in predators and big cats, specifically doramectin 1% (Dectomax) ie. 10mg/ml and not ivermectin. The big cats are definitely more susceptible to macrocyclic lactone toxicity from ivermectin vs doramectin. I am going to attach an article referencing an issue which found that the horses that were fed to these lions had been injected with Dectomax and the lions had also been given Dectomax so the exact doses were unknown. I give lions and all the big cats 0,2mg/kg ie 1ml/50kg of the 10mg/ml Dectomax subcutaneously when sedated. The smaller cats like cheetahs, servals and caracals I give 1ml/20kg and have found no toxicity side effects in last 20 years. I have also darted them in the past with 2 x 1,5 ml darts ie. average female lion weights of 150kg. Darting intramuscularly with a full 3 ml dart intramuscular occasionally causes pain and dart site reaction and poor absorption and sterile abscesses. It covers most feline worm species except tapeworm, and I have found no resistance yet. Oral milbemycin and a combination of praziquantel/fenbendazole covers all internal worm parasites. Regular faecal worm counts are done to confirm the above findings. I would never use doramectin in predators to treat ticks and most external parasites but it works extremely well in mange mites and would use it for this. I would recommend not to dart with any macrocyclic lactone and also not to use any other one other than doramectin. White lions are definitely more susceptible to macrocyclic lactone toxicity than tawny lions. The first early symptoms of toxicity in lions and tigers are mydriasis and blindness after that ataxia, torticollis and sometimes acute death. Jacques ODell, [23 Sep 2023 at 12:45:39]: Hi all. Peter, a few years ago some of our students overdosed two male lions with Dectomax with 20 ml per animal subcutaneously. Other than local necrosis at the injection site, no side effects were seen. Perhaps we were lucky. Or perhaps they are just not as sensitive to the drug as we think. If they have the right genes, then they can metabolise it I guess, even at high dosages. Chris Perkins, [23 Sep 2023 at 16:46:18]: Is it having the right gene or not having the wrong one? Henry Labuschagne, [23 Sep 2023 at 17:41:50]: Need to test for MDR1 gene mutation to know. Jacques ODell, [23 Sep 2023] 1 month after Dectomax injection :
