D Pretorius David Pretorius: I used a combination of Thianil 0.5, medetomidine 2.5 mg, water-based perphenazine 10 mg or midazolam 2.5 mg Luis Amaral, [08 Jun 2022 at 17:28:34]: Great👍 did you wake them up in a trailer? If yes how calm where they, that is the crucial moment. How to reverse and maintain sedation. They like to kill themselves David Pretorius, [08 Jun 2022 at 17:39:04]: Reversal was with naltrexone IM 0.2ml PLUS 1ml of a combination of 2mg Atipamezole + 6.25mg Yohimbine Wolfgang Zenker, [08 Jun 2022 at 17:54:34]: What is the reason to give both, atipamezole and yohimbine? Luis Amaral, [08 Jun 2022 at 17:55:08]: Thanks and they stay calm with the WBP David Pretorius, [08 Jun 2022 at 18:15:26]: We placed pipes on the horns of all of them... 3 hours later we measured them. 1 person took off the pipes and they were all lying calmly on the floor. No issues. Erik will be able to comment on the moment just post reversal. Some excitement especially if you wake up 6 at the same time. The combination of atipamezole and yohimbine just seems to work well together. It is a very low dose im atipamezole. Elmien Kotze, [08 Jun 2022 at 19:24:40]: The atipamezole is the "pure" reversal of medetomidine but wears off after 2 hours it seems. And then you get animals that "renarc" and lays down with bendy necks and sometimes die (because they are Impala.) The yohimbine is less of a "pure" reversal but it hangs around for 8 to 12 hours and stops the renarc. If you only use yohimbine the animals stays groggy with bendy necks and recovery is slower than usual (and can die because they are impala) It is not just antelope - we found with amitraz overdose in dogs that you need to give both atipamezole and yohimbine to fully reverse the effects. Wolfgang, [08 Jun 2022 at 22:04:13]: Thanks Elmien, I am very happy to know I don't have to immobilize impala in the near future. Interesting that I haven't seen renarc in some other species like different deer species, but maybe I was not watching long enough. Sometimes we also use tolazoline instead of yohimbine. Erik Verrynne, [09 Jun 2022 at 01:45:45]: After reversal they were a bit flat. Then had an excitement phase and then settled well. I suspect it is the period between the reversal of the medetomidine and kicking in of the WBP. David Gerber, [09 Jun 2022 at 09:41:16]: Hi Wolfi Atipamezole on its own works perfect for a total reversal, however, it is very expensive. You would normally give 5mg atipamezole per 1mg of medetomidine, which is the recommended dose if you use Antisedan to reverse Domitor. If you do the same in game species, you will have an immediate and complete reversal. Reversing with (0.5-) 1mg of atipamezole gives you a short-lived immediate reversal but, as Elmien said, they are renarcing after some time. Combining atipamezole with yohimbine and giving 1mg of atipamezole and 3.125 of yohimbine gives a reversal without strong renarc. The reversal is not as complete as if using 5mg atipamezole per 1mg medetomidine, which is the recommended reversal if animals are in the wild and might be immediately exposed to predators Ean van den Berg, [09 Jun 2022 at 13:25:18]: Hi David, was that out of helicopter? David Pretorius, [09 Jun 2022 at 13:40:21]: Yes D Pretorius Ean van den Berg, [09 Jun 2022 at 14:57:54]: Downtime? David Pretorius, [09 Jun 2022 at 14:58:06]: 4-8mins. Dart placement and top-up not an issue with 1/2" - 5/8" needles
