Rob Jackson, [09 Nov 2022 at 13:15:39]: Good afternoon all. Please advise. I may have to take a snare off a giraffes leg. Suggestions for safest knock down and possible maintenance if I need more time would be very welcome. Thank you David Pretorius, [09 Nov 2022 at 13:25:29]: Size of Giraffe? Henry Labuschagne, [09 Nov 2022 at 15:51:53]: On adult cow I use Thianil 4mg plus Medetomidine 5 mg . Ketamine prn iv in 50 mg bolus. Rob Jackson, [09 Nov 2022 at 16:13:47]: Adult female Hendrik Hansen, [09 Nov 2022 at 20:33:45]: Rob, you can also use Thianil 2mg and medetomidine 10 mg especially for longer procedures. Rob Jackson, [10 Nov 2022 at 06:20:38]: Thanks Hendrik, Henry. Is there any need with the low opioid dose to reverse or partially reverse the Thianil with M5050 or butorphanol as with the M99 giraffe protocol. Thank you David Pretorius, [10 Nov 2022 at 06:26:31]: Hi Rob, If the Thianil dose is very low, it is not needed. You have time - you can monitor the giraffe and make the decision as needed. Henry Labuschagne, [10 Nov 2022 at 07:16:30]: Hi Rob. I find especially in giraffe and rhino with low opioid + high medetomidine cocktail if you use butorphanol to partially reverse the Thianil/M99, the butorphanol and medetomidine combination deepens the plane of anaesthesia. To avoid that I use mini dose of M5050. Anybody else with same observation? Hendrik HH your opinion ? Gary Bauer, [10 Nov 2022 at 14:00:13]: Hi Henry. See previous comments on this a while ago by myself and Leith. It is my clinical experience that butorphanol on top of M99/medetomidine combo certainly deepens immobilisation.... Hendrik Hansen, [13 Nov 2022 at 07:24:48]: No Henry, that effect is totally dose dependant. Butorphanol at 5 to 10 mg / mg opioid will antagonise the deep plane induced by the potent opioid partially and at 40 to 50 mg / mg butorphanol iv in rhino, the antagonising effect will be dramatic after 5 - 10 min for a short period – possibly 5 min and then the agonistic opioid effect from butorphanol will slowly get the rhino into a deeper plane of anaesthesia but not as deep as the initial plane from the potent opioid - medetomidine combination. I am not sure but I think the same will happen with diprenorphine but the rhino might get up in the initial antagonistic phase? I haven't used it in that way yet. Not sure if this will also be true in giraffe? Henry Labuschagne, [13 Nov 2022 at 10:33:24]: Hi Rob. What dose did you use in the adult giraffe cow? Hendrik’s suggested dose or my dose? Rob Jackson, [14 Nov 2022 at 09:07:11]: Dose was a compromise, closer to your Thianil, and Hendrik's medetomidine. Balancing old Thianil dose which was probably fine and the fact that the female was obviously in season and being chased by a big male.
