Gary Bauer: What I have found in my limited numbers of white rhino with medetomidine, is if you use M99/medetomidine/midazolam (or low azaperone) as primary immobilisation, and then give butorphanol to try and get them standing and walking, the opposite happens - they get deeper😕. Is this due to the medetomidine/butorphanol combination perhaps?? I also use much lower doses of medetomidine and seldom go more than 4mg in an adult. We ran some blood gases on about 13 of these rhino which I am hoping can be presented at next wildlife group meeting?? I find the animals are relatively easy to walk and unless you use Trexonil instead of M5050 to reverse (😳), are quite good during transport ..... Luis Amaral: I had a buffalo last month that I also gave the butorphanol and also went deeper. I then gave a fraction of M5050 and was breathing well again. Definitely the effect of the butorphanol/medetomidine combination HO Reuter, [09 Sep 2022 at 19:53:04]: Interesting observation Gary, re: butorphanol effect. It works so well as a partial reversal of Etorphine with Azaperone or Midazolam, at 10-15 x Etorphine dose that I expected similar beneficial effect on the lower dose opioid / medetomidine combination. A lot of potential for interesting studies and exchange of experiences here. Gary Bauer, [10 Sep 2022 at 07:11:30]: Exactly what I anticipated the first time I used it....I also now use diluted M5050 to achieve what I used to with butorphanol Leith Meyer, [10 Sep 2022 at 08:41:26]: Interesting discussion on butorphanol. I think what you are seeing Gary supports some of the literature that suggests that butorphanol is actually a partial agonist at mu opioid receptors (with high affinity) rather than an antagonists as it was formally known. In my view this partial mu agonist effect is key to allowing the BAM, BMM and other butorphanol combinations to work when used to induce immobilization. Erik Verrynne, [10 Sep 2022 at 09:27:42]: Hi Gary. What are the dosages and mixtures that you were using on the rhinos. If you go below 4 medetomidine, how high is your etorphine? Gary Bauer, [10 Sep 2022 at 15:57:40]: Mature cows: 2 M99, +2 medetomidine, +20mg azaperone. Recumbency time between 8 and 33 minutes (all darted from the ground) Calves (about 18-30 months) :0.5 M99 + 0.5-1mg medetomidine. No azaperone. Recumbency time between 8 and 10 minutes. Also darted from ground PS: others were doing the blood work so may not be me presenting this...😉. Have another 30 odd to do so will try and get more blood work on these too....
