[17:50, 11/05/2022] Henry Labuschagne: I usually use 100mg ketamine for every 1mg medetomidine and use 1mg medetomidine per 40kg animal. As stated before, I used lower doses and it worked fine. [18:10, 11/05/2022] Andreas Gaugler: Henry do you use that for cheetah as well? [18:13, 11/05/2022] Henry Labuschagne: Yes [18:14, 11/05/2022] Andreas Gaugler: Thx Henry and reversal also same mix? [18:16, 11/05/2022] +] Henry Labuschagne: Atipamezole @ 2.5 mg per mg medetomidine used plus 1ml yohimbine [18:22, 11/05/2022] Rob Jackson : A question, why the atipamezole - yohimbine mixture rather than more atipamezole on its own? Cost or better results? Thank you. [18:23, 11/05/2022] +] Henry Labuschagne: Both. I like to think that you get better results when using 2 antagonists. [18:23, 11/05/2022] Wambura: @Henry Labuschagne do you mean, Ketamine 100mg + medetomidine 1mg Does it work well in wild cheetah? [18:25, 11/05/2022] ] Henry Labuschagne: I have only used it in captive cheetah and it worked well for me. [18:33, 11/05/2022] Wambura : OK, I will try the same doses to the wild one and I will share my findings. [18:36, 11/05/2022] Shaun Beverley: In wild cheetah, I use ketamine 100 mg + medetomidine 2 mg [18:36, 11/05/2022] Douw Grobler: Wambura. Wait for feedback from Drs Caldwell, Glyphis, Tordiffe and Rogers....they have captured loads of wild cheetahs between them. Wambura : Also, is there anyone tried using Zoletil + medetomidine combination in wild cheetahs? Dosage please? [18:42, 11/05/2022] Adrian Tordiffe: Yes. It works well. 2mg medetomidine and 50 to 60mg Zoletil for a 45 to 50 kg cheetah. Always have supplementary oxygen for cheetahs regardless of the drug combination you use. Every combination causes some level of hypoxaemia. [18:43, 11/05/2022] Jacques O’Dell: Yes, commonly used. 2-3mg medetomidine and 40 mg Zoletil for most adult cheetah should work well. [18:48, 11/05/2022] Rob Jackson : I stopped using Zoletil in cheetah and leopard because of horrible recoveries. Even after several hours if transporting. [18:51, 11/05/2022] Adrian Tordiffe: It all depends on what you plan to do with them (length of time they need to be down and where they are released) and the dose of Zoletil used. Zoletil also stings a lot less than ketamine if you are hand injecting cheetahs. It costs a fortune though 😏 [18:53, 11/05/2022] Rob Jackson : Sorry, included with medetomidine and ketamine reversible mix. On its own, its great for transport. [19:35, 11/05/2022 Andreas Gaugler: Thx Shaun Reversal then? [19:43, 11/05/2022] Zoe Glyphis: My drug combination of choice on wild cheetah still remains butorphanol + midazolam + medetomidine. That being said, I see no issue with medetomidine and Zoletil or medetomidine and ketamine. I think what's most important is to know your drugs and know what to expect from your chosen combination and be comfortable with it. I also think the reason for capture may dictate which combination to use, for example darting a cheetah to load it in a transport crate vs dart a cheetah for a quick collaring. [19:44, 11/05/2022] Wambura : I use atipamezole 2.5mg per 1mg of medetomidine. [19:57, 11/05/2022] Adrian Tordiffe: I totally agree with this. In the literature and in our own research, there is very little difference between the immobilization parameters (down times, BP, HR etc) and blood gas values with most of the drug combinations tested in cheetahs so far (MK, MZ, BMM, BAM etc) if they are given at standard doses. But I will just mention that ALL combinations that I am aware of give PaO2 values in the low 60s (moderate hypoxaemia) on the Highveld. So if O2 demand is high (as with stress/hyperthermia), then you could be in trouble if they don't get oxygen supplementation. [21:39, 11/05/2022] Ulf Tubessing: Try using Zoletil + medetomidine + butorphanol. It gives very nice reversible immobilisation in all predators at a fraction of Zoletil cost. Can do 5 male lions/1 bottle of Zoletil [22:17, 11/05/2022] Richard Harvey: Ulf, I tried your mix in lion after you posted about it previously and found it a great combination with quick and smooth reversal. I would certainly recommend it [22:18, 11/05/2022] Chuma : I know no free ranging African lions which resisted or delayed induction with 90-120mg Zoletil with 2-3mg medetomidine in Tanzania (females and males). For a cheetah, I use 50-70mg Zoletil + 2mg medetomidine. In both cases, I use atipamezole alone at 1:1 ratio of medetomidine after 45-60 min after darting. This works well for me. [22:20, 11/05/2022] Chuma : Ulf and Harvey, would you please mind to elaborate this drug combo? How much Zoletil / medetomidine/ butorphanol? I would like to as well try. [22:24, 11/05/2022] Chuma : Also BAM, ketamine /medetomidine works well for me [22:29, 11/05/2022] Rob Jackson: Ulf, do you have to wait 30 to 45 min before reversing or can you reverse when finished if a short intervention [05:07, 12/05/2022] Robert Campbell: I love this combo as well. Used it in a zoological setting for all the predators, have used it mostly only in captive situations and only one wild leopard. Very low chance of spontaneous arousal. I allowed for effects up to min 45+- and usually I topped up at about 45-50 min with 1mg med. Most treatments were for sterilisation and fighting wounds that where severe. I have almost always kept O2 with me , needed it only in cheetah like advocated by Peter and Adrian. [06:23, 12/05/2022] Ulf Tubessing: I add 2 ml of butorphanol (50 mg/ml) + 1 ml medetomidine (20 mg/ml) + 2 ml Zoletil diluent to a vial of Zoletil powder. 1 ml of this mix will knock down a free ranging male lion. Needless to say, you can mix it more dilute if you mostly work with smaller species. I prefer, as far as possible, to use 1 ml darts for more predictable shot placement, thus I make the mix concentrated and dilute a small portion if needed. Work on 1 ml/200 kg and proportionally lower. In wild dog, I used 0.12 ml, leopard up dose by 30-50% and free-range spotted hyaena adults 0.5 ml (down in 3-5 minutes, but very smooth with good breathing). Reversal depends on case. If I changed collar on free range lion, I will give full reversal (up within 15 min and soon back to normal), if for translocation I will give partial reversal where they are dopey and very calm in the crate. Since I almost exclusively work with free range animals, I tend to reverse the combination. [06:31, 12/05/2022] ] Jennifer Lawrence : Thank you for this combo suggestion. I’m moving lion next week and going to try it. [06:35, 12/05/2022] Jennifer Lawrence : Really great discussion. I’m curious to know why yohimbine is being used in combination with atipamezole for reversal of medetomidine. I also understand that atipamezole is best reversal for medetomidine. [06:39, 12/05/2022] Heather Nixon : Cost I believe
2 comments
Morning. There are a number of posts that discuss medetomidine and zoletil in tigers. Search under ‘tigers, medetomidine, Zoletil’ . Regards
Any idea about medetomidine and zoletil combination for tigers.